Built On Web3

[sean_crowe]: welcome to another episode of built on
web three today we are so excited and

[sean_crowe]: so lucky to chat with the one
and only

[evin___disco]: m

[sean_crowe]: evan

[evin___disco]: g m everybody

[sean_crowe]: mc mullen

[evin___disco]: thank you

[sean_crowe]: the

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: c

[evin___disco]: much for

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[sean_crowe]: o

[evin___disco]: having

[sean_crowe]: and

[evin___disco]: me

[sean_crowe]: founder of disco dot x

[evin___disco]: i

[sean_crowe]: z even welcome to the show

[evin___disco]: ah

[sean_crowe]: oh yeah

[evin___disco]: that is indeed correct

[sean_crowe]: as i was doing research i noticed
and you just mentioned you might be from

[sean_crowe]: northeast ohio

[evin___disco]: oh my

[sean_crowe]: is

[evin___disco]: gosh

[sean_crowe]: that correct

[evin___disco]: absolutely yes we would play hudson

[sean_crowe]: i grew

[evin___disco]: in

[sean_crowe]: up

[evin___disco]: sports

[sean_crowe]: in hudson

[evin___disco]: when i was a kid

[thomas_gorczynski]: m

[sean_crowe]: were you near there

[evin___disco]: i grew up i'm just east of
cleveland

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[evin___disco]: in a town called chesterland in giaga

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: county

[sean_crowe]: where did you grow up

[evin___disco]: see

[sean_crowe]: okay

[evin___disco]: nerves are multi

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[sean_crowe]: vaguely

[evin___disco]: faceted

[sean_crowe]: familiar

[evin___disco]: too

[sean_crowe]: i think we did play in sports
amazing small world oh yes exactly

[evin___disco]: yeah

[thomas_gorczynski]: okay

[sean_crowe]: and and i assume

[evin___disco]: perfect

[sean_crowe]: you're

[evin___disco]: internet

[sean_crowe]: flying

[evin___disco]: weather

[sean_crowe]: out there

[evin___disco]: i

[sean_crowe]: for the

[evin___disco]: say

[sean_crowe]: holidays

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[sean_crowe]: so i hear it's going to be
cold so well we'll have to bundle up

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: that's awesome so i want to start
this off kind of talking about how we

[sean_crowe]: can better explain

[evin___disco]: m

[sean_crowe]: web three

[evin___disco]: m

[sean_crowe]: to people not in this space so
we're all going home for the holidays our

[sean_crowe]: parents will inevitably ask us what we're
doing what this podcast is about and i

[sean_crowe]: want to kind of get your take
on this so our thomas and is day

[sean_crowe]: job is we run

[evin___disco]: yes

[sean_crowe]: an agency

[evin___disco]: yeah

[sean_crowe]: of soft agency in last week i
held a web three one o one thing

[sean_crowe]: for our team and i challenged myself
not to use the word n f t

[sean_crowe]: decentralized or an

[evin___disco]: m

[sean_crowe]: these words to confuse everybody in explaining
what way three is and i want the

[sean_crowe]: crysticsinroute where i basically just said it's
about digital ownership right in the feedback i

[sean_crowe]: got was good but i think the
piece i missing is how to make web

[sean_crowe]: three big how to make that a
moment and so my question u is

[evin___disco]: yes

[sean_crowe]: is there anything you found yourself using
in explaining web three that kind of sparks

[sean_crowe]: that a

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: moment that

[evin___disco]: when

[sean_crowe]: big

[evin___disco]: i

[sean_crowe]: idea

[evin___disco]: think about

[sean_crowe]: of

[evin___disco]: web three

[sean_crowe]: really getting people to

[evin___disco]: obviously

[sean_crowe]: grasp

[evin___disco]: all

[sean_crowe]: what

[evin___disco]: of

[sean_crowe]: web

[evin___disco]: us have

[sean_crowe]: three is

[evin___disco]: different

[sean_crowe]: how big it can

[evin___disco]: definitions

[sean_crowe]: be

[evin___disco]: but um at disco when we talk
about web three we think about the universe

[evin___disco]: locked with public ledgers and private keys
and so

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: from

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: verbal perspective this means basically nothing

[sean_crowe]: no

[evin___disco]: to our friends and family so we
need to show them we know what are

[evin___disco]: the outcomes and experiences made possible with
this kind of infrastructure um and so one

[evin___disco]: of my favorite things to do is
invite people to tell me about the as

[evin___disco]: if content the books movies or television
shows that informed what they thought the future

[evin___disco]: would be like when they were kids
and so much of these memories is wound

[evin___disco]: up in automation n personalization in robot
robot side kicks and not having to fill

[evin___disco]: out forms and stay and lines in
order to enjoy personalized experiences being able to

[evin___disco]: move seamlessly from one space to another
and have those environments and vehicles and spaces

[evin___disco]: respond to you and so you know
i just go when we think about the

[evin___disco]: new term future we talk about throwing
a super fun party a disco disco at

[evin___disco]: the louvre in paris and inviting everybody
to come um where the only thing they

[evin___disco]: need to bring with them is their
disco data back back so that a them

[evin___disco]: to move sceamlessly through the doors that
they're building a ride share border screenings health

[evin___disco]: screenings security screenings airport screenings um you
being able to move sceamlessly through all of

[evin___disco]: space is to a hotel to the
door of the v i p room at

[evin___disco]: the event where you're enjoying a personalized
experience because our definition of the mediverse is

[evin___disco]: your ability to move freely from one
spa to another without the need to explicitly

[evin___disco]: state any of your preferences to enjoy
personalized experiences that are built around you without

[evin___disco]: first having to ask um and that's
also why we're called disco because we believe

[evin___disco]: you are the multi faceted center of
the party just just like this disco ball

[evin___disco]: and you should be able to reflect
your data and your identity to the world

[evin___disco]: however you decide you're a different person
when you show up um you know with

[evin___disco]: your family with your friends in professional
settings in public and private and your ability

[evin___disco]: to selectively decide how you want to
present yourself which part of

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: your if you want to reflect is
you know is very much a poor principle

[evin___disco]: of your individualism and so when we
talk about

[sean_crowe]: a

[evin___disco]: you know

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: the desire to remove friction to fill
out your four i'm just to wait in

[evin___disco]: four lines to you be able to
take your uber rating with you to to

[evin___disco]: a new ride chair to be able
to enjoy an under collateral ized loan based

[evin___disco]: on reputation you've built

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: out of a financial system these kinds
of examples become much more tangible i think

[sean_crowe]: m

[sean_crowe]: yeah i love that so going on
before we get into how disco is helping

[sean_crowe]: all this possible going on that that
example of going to the love and going

[sean_crowe]: to this party how could i how
could experience become more personal if i can

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: take

[evin___disco]: you can imagine

[sean_crowe]: my

[evin___disco]: that

[sean_crowe]: verified credentials

[evin___disco]: being able

[sean_crowe]: my

[evin___disco]: to line up your

[sean_crowe]: pieces

[evin___disco]: itinerary

[sean_crowe]: of my dada back

[evin___disco]: beforehand

[sean_crowe]: back with me

[evin___disco]: and have a bunch of pre set
preferences that you don't need to articulate such

[evin___disco]: as the time of rival of a
ride share to pick you up to go

[evin___disco]: to the airport being now spaced to
your preference of how early you like to

[evin___disco]: arrive the day's traffic in the anticipated
number of people at the

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: airport or even free particular

[sean_crowe]: h

[evin___disco]: flight being able to anticipate

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: the type of ride share what sort
of music the temperature the seating arrangement how

[evin___disco]: much luggage you're going to have in
addition to you know your language preferences and

[evin___disco]: your pronoun preferences so really granular sorts
of things like

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: settings page for your experience of the
whole world can be articulated beforehand such that

[evin___disco]: when you interact with different services that
can

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: be personalized there can be umyouknwcan you

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: can remove some administrivia

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: you're able to have a much more
seamless way to access kinds of things especially

[evin___disco]: in tandem co ordinating one with another
because of course human co ordination

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: is what we're all about here anyway

[sean_crowe]: oh yeah yeah

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: oh yes so disco is helping all
this happen right and you're solving some really

[sean_crowe]: really important issues that two has not
been able to solve and i think what

[sean_crowe]: you guys are doing is going to
be foundational to web three in can you

[sean_crowe]: kind of lay the foundation here and
paint us a picture of the problems

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: that were

[evin___disco]: right

[sean_crowe]: ing today

[evin___disco]: now

[sean_crowe]: in web two

[evin___disco]: when you

[sean_crowe]: that

[evin___disco]: use

[sean_crowe]: disco

[evin___disco]: an application

[sean_crowe]: is then addressing

[evin___disco]: web too when you

[sean_crowe]: to

[evin___disco]: visit

[sean_crowe]: help create

[evin___disco]: instagram

[sean_crowe]: this picture

[evin___disco]: or

[sean_crowe]: of the

[evin___disco]: google

[sean_crowe]: future

[evin___disco]: um or even use a collaboration tool
like notion or get hub when you're hanging

[evin___disco]: out inside of that applicato and you're
doing various activities clicking things creating data writing

[evin___disco]: documents collaborating with friends all of the
data that pertains to your interactions in that

[evin___disco]: space is so o sea within the
confines of that application or perhaps related application

[evin___disco]: system such as you know the google
universe the apple universe um and so the

[evin___disco]: data that you create that day exhaust
or trail of information that you leave as

[evin___disco]: a result of your actions is sort
of sihload to that appecosystem or to that

[evin___disco]: individual application itself and so you find
yourself interacting with new apes and having to

[evin___disco]: fill out on boarding forms just about
every time you interact not being able to

[evin___disco]: have usable forms sort of like auto
fill experiences universally across the board for and

[evin___disco]: certainly not for more than just being
able to fill out explicit form fields so

[evin___disco]: your preference for things like light or
dark mode or a primary language don't necessarily

[evin___disco]: travel you and so you continue to
have to update them certainly if you work

[evin___disco]: in the crypto space you may have
had to fill out some event bread forms

[evin___disco]: some party full forms some r s
v p forms to allow you to attend

[evin___disco]: various different events very rarely is it
easy

[thomas_gorczynski]: ah

[evin___disco]: to be able to re use your
information to populate to populate those kinds of

[evin___disco]: things but also it's it's challenging to
be able to capture

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[evin___disco]: proofs that you indeed were there and
to carry those with you over time

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[evin___disco]: in a way that's going to be
you know low cost simple less and uh

[evin___disco]: and independently

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[evin___disco]: verifiable so you have

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[evin___disco]: a pretty good understanding that when i
carry this proof that is indeed written about

[evin___disco]: me

[thomas_gorczynski]: so does this go does disco introduce
any sort of centralization or does it actually

[thomas_gorczynski]: empower more of a decentralized like echos
um um i guess like how does this

[thomas_gorczynski]: go plug into everything

[evin___disco]: so that's a really great question because
it invites us to contemplate what do we

[evin___disco]: mean when we say decentralization do we
mean physically decentralized infrastructure that is bound to

[evin___disco]: a single netware do we mean the
portability of data and its ability to move

[evin___disco]: freely from one platform storage to another
so that we do not experience platform locking

[evin___disco]: do we mean decentralization and that no
um you know single party has the ability

[evin___disco]: to impact or influence it at scale
um and so there are a lot there's

[evin___disco]: a lot of nuance in this definition
when we think about the role of data

[evin___disco]: that's written a person or an organization
individual party even be an entity like a

[evin___disco]: dog or a car but we think
about the sovereignty especially of those now the

[evin___disco]: human beings sitting behind those keys when
we talk about self sovereignty it does we

[evin___disco]: mean an egosystem in which the subjective
data has the most control over the data

[evin___disco]: that describes it and so that doesn't
mean complete control and total control of course

[evin___disco]: that just means ore control than any
other party and so what we are implying

[evin___disco]: here is a logical centralization of control
around the data subject around the person that

[evin___disco]: it's written about but that can all
so repaired with a physical decentralization of the

[evin___disco]: places where that data is actually stored
so different kinds of data can be appropriate

[evin___disco]: to be stored in different sorts of
places based on the amount of availability we

[evin___disco]: need sort of mutability or efhemerality of
that data or need for it to persist

[evin___disco]: or to go away or change in
involve and so all of those different variables

[evin___disco]: can influence the best way store stash
that data especially now depending on how often

[evin___disco]: you're retrieving it using it validating it
and so it's really important for us to

[evin___disco]: ensure that no matter what we prioritize
the sovereignty and informed consent of individual users

[evin___disco]: so that they are able to understand
and interact with the work product that is

[evin___disco]: their data you know after all it
only this as a result of their actions

[evin___disco]: and the choices that they make um
interacting with these various difdifferent applications and so

[evin___disco]: we can also create much more business
efficient environment on the out side if but

[evin___disco]: he's not starting redundant copies of information
that all take up the same amount of

[evin___disco]: space and all need to be stashed
and stashed somewhere and you no reference on

[evin___disco]: non zero basis and so were able
to hopefully explore better g p r compliance

[evin___disco]: and not having to worry about things
like the physical storage and insurance and protection

[evin___disco]: of duplicate copies of data that otherwise
could very simply be provided with usable credential

[sean_crowe]: m

[sean_crowe]: from an ap

[evin___disco]: yeah

[sean_crowe]: development perspective just out of curiosity how
so how would that work with what you

[sean_crowe]: guys have built so if if i'm
building an ap and i don't want to

[sean_crowe]: just have a form

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: there and i want

[evin___disco]: as

[sean_crowe]: to

[evin___disco]: a developer

[sean_crowe]: use some

[evin___disco]: you

[sean_crowe]: one's data

[evin___disco]: can

[sean_crowe]: pack

[evin___disco]: occupy

[sean_crowe]: and use their preferences

[evin___disco]: a couple o different

[sean_crowe]: how do

[evin___disco]: roles

[sean_crowe]: i access that

[evin___disco]: or your

[sean_crowe]: as a developer

[evin___disco]: application can occupy a couple o different
roles in the life cycle of a credential

[evin___disco]: or the life cycle of the data
that describes a person you can be the

[evin___disco]: kind of party that is issuing that
data that is handing over statements written about

[evin___disco]: that individual user organization that they can
and carry with them

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: to other spaces or you're a relying
party or a verifyer your application is looking

[evin___disco]: to rely upon data that comes to
the front door of your episode this is

[evin___disco]: the example that you just outlined so
for both of these partnerships we have to

[evin___disco]: think about you know what is the
interaction that they're really trying to achieve so

[evin___disco]: in terms of issuance it's about how
do i select the right credential schema how

[evin___disco]: do i

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: create the right form so it's still
be three compliant and resolvable and how do

[evin___disco]: i ensure that that's issued and signed
in a way that the keys that present

[evin___disco]: it that sign issue it or belong
to a party that has authority over the

[evin___disco]: contents it contains so that it can
be useful and then on the verifier side

[evin___disco]: we've got to ask who signed this
crit tell um is it valid or valid

[evin___disco]: for the purposes that i need so
is the cryptography intact is the signature sort

[evin___disco]: of resolvable as expected is the date
of idity in tact has it not expired

[evin___disco]: or not been revoked um so additionally
a little bit of nuance here is that

[evin___disco]: even if a credential has expired or
been revoked it can still be used for

[evin___disco]: certain purposes so you can imagine even
if your driver's license is expired it can

[evin___disco]: still be useful to prove that you
are over a certain age so we've got

[evin___disco]: a lot of flexibility in the way
we can interpret this data but a really

[evin___disco]: nice thing about the disco e goes
them is that we make

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: these sorts of nuance questions pretty easy
to answer we have an a pi that

[evin___disco]: allows applications to validate credentials that user
presents a and call those credentials hat are

[evin___disco]: related to users given public address so
make it easy to access and then analyze

[evin___disco]: those credentials and ensure that they are
indeed the droits that you're looking for the

[evin___disco]: qualifications or trades you're seeking to unlock
access to an experience or to be able

[evin___disco]: to provide a given service and then
this sort of more wholistic view of what

[evin___disco]: the data is allows you to do
find on your end you know what are

[evin___disco]: the rules that we have in our
community and our app an our ecosystem how

[evin___disco]: is it that we make sense of
this data that's being presented and then on

[evin___disco]: the issuemant side and sort of like
credential management and resolution clients had resolution side

[evin___disco]: we're building out our s d k
we're also really excited to have a schema

[evin___disco]: builder capability that will allow anyone to
in vision a new kind of credential whatever

[evin___disco]: that might be whether that's a proof
a vives a proof that you came to

[evin___disco]: my dinner party

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: a proof that

[sean_crowe]: cool

[evin___disco]: you know i vouch for you to
date one of my friends whatever those things

[evin___disco]: are you know probably more likely financial
kinds of contributions to doze but whatever those

[evin___disco]: are folks are going to be able
to define their own

[sean_crowe]: he

[evin___disco]: with a simplicity of creating a google
pole so not having to right code and

[evin___disco]: be careful about structure and sort of
spect compliance as we currently have to today

[sean_crowe]: yeah i

[sean_crowe]: okay that's interesting so will this be
like an open market place of schemes like

[sean_crowe]: does there have to be like be
consensus

[evin___disco]: so anyone

[sean_crowe]: of

[evin___disco]: can

[sean_crowe]: a

[evin___disco]: create

[sean_crowe]: of

[evin___disco]: as

[sean_crowe]: a

[evin___disco]: many

[sean_crowe]: shema

[evin___disco]: schemes

[sean_crowe]: or

[evin___disco]: as they

[sean_crowe]: can

[evin___disco]: would

[sean_crowe]: anyone

[evin___disco]: like to and that

[sean_crowe]: create

[evin___disco]: is the beauty of

[sean_crowe]: multiple

[evin___disco]: open standards

[sean_crowe]: schemes for the

[evin___disco]: however

[sean_crowe]: same thing

[evin___disco]: we can achieve some really awesome network
effects if we're able to coordinate different organizations

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: issuing resolving schemes in a shared understanding
and shared language so all the schemes don't

[evin___disco]: necessarily have to be the same but
there needs to be some shared understanding of

[evin___disco]: what they represent and the validity of
their issues so really

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: fortunate activity that's happening right now is
that over at the world wide web consort

[evin___disco]: the w three c the good people
who run the internet they not only have

[evin___disco]: presented us with these textbooks for design
realized identifies and verifiable credentials but there are

[evin___disco]: also some really inspiring leaders in the
identity space who have kicked off working groups

[evin___disco]: to address just this need for global
repository of as similar to scheme a dot

[evin___disco]: or but explicitly focused on verifiable credentials
and even the sort of

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: preferred or allowed lists of issuers or
signers that represent or govern a given a

[evin___disco]: given scheme so you can gen that
a group of universities is going to be

[evin___disco]: the appropriate party to be associated with
diploma credentials that pertain to their institutions

[thomas_gorczynski]: but then if the university like if
a different university wanted to create their own

[thomas_gorczynski]: scheme or like add on

[sean_crowe]: m

[thomas_gorczynski]: to it they totally could to

[sean_crowe]: oh

[thomas_gorczynski]: meanwhile utilizing like the

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[thomas_gorczynski]: standard scheme that was for those universities
right

[evin___disco]: so the nice thing about schemes is
that you can issue the same ones identical

[evin___disco]: sort of schemes and fill them out
in different ways than other institutions you can

[evin___disco]: evolve a mat that already exists and
based

[sean_crowe]: i

[evin___disco]: the creation of a new one

[sean_crowe]: ah

[evin___disco]: upon an existing structure and really the
choice of schema is important in so far

[evin___disco]: as it is real vent to the
parties that will rely upon that credential in

[evin___disco]: the future so ensuring that the folks
who want to be able to resolve and

[evin___disco]: rely upon the data that you're encompassing
in a given credential you know if you're

[evin___disco]: prioritizing that use ability that portability and
wanting to optimize for the number for the

[evin___disco]: most verifying party is possible then you're
probably more than likely going to choose a

[evin___disco]: scheme it is aligned with other institutions
already

[sean_crowe]: yep that makes sense so of taking
a step back from more of like a

[sean_crowe]: user side perspective can you kind of
walk us through what

[evin___disco]: for

[sean_crowe]: the

[evin___disco]: sure

[sean_crowe]: experience

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: of

[evin___disco]: disco

[sean_crowe]: someone is

[evin___disco]: is

[sean_crowe]: interacting

[evin___disco]: bring

[sean_crowe]: with

[evin___disco]: your

[sean_crowe]: their

[evin___disco]: own keys

[sean_crowe]: data

[evin___disco]: experience

[sean_crowe]: back pack

[evin___disco]: right

[sean_crowe]: and

[evin___disco]: now

[sean_crowe]: even

[evin___disco]: although

[sean_crowe]: creating

[evin___disco]: we're looking forward

[sean_crowe]: their data

[evin___disco]: to

[sean_crowe]: back pack

[evin___disco]: inviting users into a coustodial data back
pack experience in the future we can talk

[evin___disco]: about that later but for now we
invite users to bring their evm compatible keys

[evin___disco]: to the disco web app and then
connect their will with one click as they

[evin___disco]: would normally web three tap on the
back end will generate a descent i sed

[evin___disco]: identify or data back pack for you
and then invite you to fill out your

[evin___disco]: profile one last time so choosing a
profile picture of brief vio creating a linkage

[evin___disco]: that you own that dependently verifiable between
your data back

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: back and your twitter handle your dens

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: record or website your discord

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: handle and then you're up and running
being able to interact with a disco web

[evin___disco]: app feels a little bit like a
personal settings page and apple wallet all wrapped

[evin___disco]: into one so your data back pack
is a collection of credentials rectangular j pegs

[evin___disco]: that you self custody that allow you
to unlock different privileges and also you know

[evin___disco]: interact with with other users in a
social manner so you can send and receive

[evin___disco]: g m credentials which are kind of
like facebook style pokes and snaps with other

[evin___disco]: users snaps are similar to kudos they
allow you to recognize another another

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: data

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: back pack owner

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: for their unique contributions immaculate vibes et
cetera um and then we also have a

[evin___disco]: number of organizations that are issuing credentials
of membership in good standing to the folks

[evin___disco]: in their squads and so all of
those incoming credentials will show up for you

[evin___disco]: in your in box um just array
of different j pegs rectangular jigs that if

[evin___disco]: you pop them open you can expand
them and see the decentralized identifiers or data

[evin___disco]: back that addresses

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: of the party that issued it the
party that received it that's you as well

[evin___disco]: as pop open the full j w
t token so being able to interrogate it

[evin___disco]: all the way down to the studs
if desire and then this inter face also

[evin___disco]: as i mentioned makes it easy to
be able to send credentials to other users

[evin___disco]: and the you can also write omen
about yourself so you can fill up your

[evin___disco]: data back pack with some statement that
you write about yourself so this includes those

[evin___disco]: preferences around ap experience like light or
dark mode language pronouns things like t shirt

[evin___disco]: size even zodiac sign so where we're
really looking forward to soon integrating some other

[evin___disco]: credential scheme as around achievement so things
like certificates of completion graduation and educational co

[evin___disco]: heart participation

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: so if i'm understanding this correctly then
there's a kind of the sub set of

[sean_crowe]: credentials that are self issued that are
information about myself that only i could decide

[sean_crowe]: on and then there's a set of
credenti as that are issued by other parties

[sean_crowe]: like university

[evin___disco]: exactly

[sean_crowe]: or

[evin___disco]: yeah and often will

[sean_crowe]: play

[evin___disco]: differentiate

[sean_crowe]: in a volley ball

[evin___disco]: those

[sean_crowe]: league

[evin___disco]: types

[sean_crowe]: and

[evin___disco]: of

[sean_crowe]: they

[evin___disco]: credentials

[sean_crowe]: say i did it

[evin___disco]: as self attested credentials being the ones
that

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: only i can decide about myself that
i can say about myself and those

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[evin___disco]: are largely preferences or sort of personal
settings for how you would like to experience

[evin___disco]: the metaverse

[thomas_gorczynski]: so i think this is a kind
of like

[evin___disco]: m

[thomas_gorczynski]: a neat segu into another topic because
jan and i did a deep dive on

[thomas_gorczynski]: disco and by the way it was
like amongst our favorite and we something really

[thomas_gorczynski]: interesting about this co is how you
have to give consent that you like

[evin___disco]: uh

[thomas_gorczynski]: these credentials this stuff

[evin___disco]: ah

[thomas_gorczynski]: that's in your data back back is
something that you accept to versus someone just

[thomas_gorczynski]: said age random stuff and span whether
that's like legal or illegal content so i

[thomas_gorczynski]: love like a quick overview of that
for our listeners but then my question specifically

[thomas_gorczynski]: is around what about the things um
that you did that might like maybe weren't

[thomas_gorczynski]: so good for example like a speeding
ticket or maybe you had like an accident

[thomas_gorczynski]: and you don't want that to show
up in your in your data back pack

[thomas_gorczynski]: for like insurance records but it is
something that happened so it's like i can

[thomas_gorczynski]: i can see like the positive things
but what about the negative things too

[evin___disco]: my

[thomas_gorczynski]: that might actually happen with that

[evin___disco]: great question so when we think about
you know how we deliberately curate in and

[evin___disco]: present information about ourselves in the real
world right now we have a pretty incredible

[evin___disco]: degree of control over how that happens
when we understand that it's happening but when

[evin___disco]: we interact with applications and services there's
this whole separate conversation happening behind our backs

[evin___disco]: above our heads where applications are are
exchanging data about us that we don't have

[evin___disco]: a lot of awareness about our ability
to to intervene in and so this is

[evin___disco]: a double edged sort there are great
benefits of this in terms of you know

[evin___disco]: automation the fact that we've gotten this
as a society in terms of being able

[evin___disco]: to anticipate the kinds of things you
want to order from macdonald's at four o'clock

[evin___disco]: in the morning on an app but
we also don't have the ability to enjoy

[evin___disco]: a lot of the value that comes
with creating and re using and securing the

[evin___disco]: data that describes us in you know
the way that we prefer to move through

[evin___disco]: the world so what's really interesting about
web three public ledgers essentialized networks like etherium

[evin___disco]: and bit coin is that the censorship
resistance and transparency they enable also necessarily requires

[evin___disco]: an absence of consent at the wallet
layer so in the evmecosystem i cannot reject

[evin___disco]: sort of using it out of the
key parer let's say from something like mad

[evin___disco]: mask i cannot reject any token idea
that another wallet user wants to map to

[evin___disco]: my public key if you know my
wallet address you know how to send something

[evin___disco]: to me and of course we could
create all kinds of elaborate permission structures around

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: this you know smart contracts that intercept
tokens and and things like that um but

[evin___disco]: you know although that is also true
there is merit in observing the fact that

[evin___disco]: the default system as it exists exists
is one that does not involve consent when

[evin___disco]: accepting public assets being associated with your
address now there are ways that you can

[evin___disco]: dissociate unwanted assets you can pay again
fee to burn that asset but now we've

[evin___disco]: got to pay money to get rid
of things that we didn't want anyway sort

[evin___disco]: of like you know having to pay
a fee to have someone scrape an unwonted

[evin___disco]: bumper sticker off of your car but

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: but i think there is

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: lot more flexibility and native natively well
suited um you know features to verifiable credentials

[evin___disco]: to describe lot of the data that
pertains to us as individuals as as human

[evin___disco]: beings and so we're able to manage
with a little bit more discretion um which

[evin___disco]: data assets we want to hang

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: on and present and which we don't
whereas if someone's looking at our public address

[evin___disco]: on block chain it's really hard to
decide which of these assets

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: did thomas and john want which of
these assets were air dropped gift it sent

[evin___disco]: to them span to them that we're
unwanted so there's a lot of additional context

[evin___disco]: that you've got to provide around public
assets when it pertains to how they got

[evin___disco]: mapped to a given public key you
know additional the inability to curate means that

[evin___disco]: we put a lot of pressure on
the front ends of applications that display our

[evin___disco]: on chain activity so we've got to
hide each application separately a silo set of

[evin___disco]: unwanted assets now of course this is
another fund solution where verifiable credentials could come

[evin___disco]: in and you could mark the assets

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: with credentials that you don't want to
see

[sean_crowe]: eh

[evin___disco]: and to carry that form to a
but you know totally beside the point um

[evin___disco]: when we talk about negative reputation you
know i think that that's a really

[sean_crowe]: oh interesting

[evin___disco]: valuable characteristic for us to contemplate in
any identity system and i'm so excited for

[evin___disco]: the day when we arrive when that's
going to be you know of the utmost

[evin___disco]: importance up front like we are still
on party invitations you know where we're not

[evin___disco]: quite at like the cartoral state and
speeding tickets and for

[thomas_gorczynski]: yep

[evin___disco]: my part i'm very excited

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: to welcome many more users into the
web three ecosystem before

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: we start appealing to them with the
desirable

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: new experience of decentralized back in for
speeding tickets but i would prefer to throw

[evin___disco]: parties first

[sean_crowe]: uh

[evin___disco]: well and also you know we're not

[sean_crowe]: well i'm

[evin___disco]: immediately

[sean_crowe]: glad you're here doing

[evin___disco]: eliminating

[sean_crowe]: that because yeah

[evin___disco]: the existence

[sean_crowe]: nobody would get in

[evin___disco]: of

[sean_crowe]: web

[evin___disco]: law

[sean_crowe]: three

[evin___disco]: enforcement

[sean_crowe]: if that was the case

[evin___disco]: like you know let's try to address
one at a time the daily experience is

[evin___disco]: in people's lives where we can remove
friction and add delight and value and there

[evin___disco]: are infinity

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: hypotheticals that we can you know concern
ourselves with when it comes to him much

[evin___disco]: higher gravity user data and we'll get
there we'll get there very soon but

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: we will not enjoy the privilege of
considering the consequences of our far reaching actions

[evin___disco]: around sensitive data until we first figure
out how to have fun in web three

[evin___disco]: in the metaphors and for those who
would like to first jump to systems of

[evin___disco]: punishment and negative reputation as we as
we take our very first steps in building

[evin___disco]: this new plane i invite us to
take a step back together and think about

[evin___disco]: how can we make the space a
little bit more welcoming at least for its

[evin___disco]: very start

[sean_crowe]: yeah yeah this i had a twit
here pulled up i think you retweated it

[sean_crowe]: and i think it was a quote
from you it was on clear but it

[sean_crowe]: was the permanence of our public chains
are unintentionally diminishing the freedom for disenfranchised commun

[sean_crowe]: it is by publicizing the very traits
used to discriminate against them and i feel

[sean_crowe]: like that's exactly what we're talking about
here where you know you could get sent

[sean_crowe]: these soul bound n f ts and
you have no choice in the matter and

[sean_crowe]: doxes basically and people know more about
you than you want them to know about

[sean_crowe]: you and

[evin___disco]: that is absolutely

[sean_crowe]: and

[evin___disco]: all me

[sean_crowe]: from the

[evin___disco]: i

[sean_crowe]: sounds

[evin___disco]: feel

[sean_crowe]: of

[evin___disco]: really

[sean_crowe]: it just

[evin___disco]: strongly

[sean_crowe]: go completely

[evin___disco]: about

[sean_crowe]: solves

[evin___disco]: this

[sean_crowe]: that

[evin___disco]: that

[sean_crowe]: by bringing these

[evin___disco]: you know

[sean_crowe]: credentials

[evin___disco]: often

[sean_crowe]: off chain

[evin___disco]: public data that pertains to individuals

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: is more harmful when we're talking about
marginalized communities and having trades exposed that can

[evin___disco]: be used to m yeah to disenfranchie
them to limit their options whether that's their

[evin___disco]: race their gender their soc economic status
their region their primary language their citizenship and

[evin___disco]: so if we want to create a
more equitable world a more level playing field

[evin___disco]: in web three perhaps may be for
our a first act we don't replicate the

[evin___disco]: systems of disenfranchisement that we know to
already exist

[sean_crowe]: m yeah m

[sean_crowe]: do you have any specific

[evin___disco]: yeah

[sean_crowe]: examples of that

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: that you're

[evin___disco]: i think

[sean_crowe]: you're

[evin___disco]: about

[sean_crowe]: looking

[evin___disco]: a lot

[sean_crowe]: forward to

[evin___disco]: on

[sean_crowe]: the

[evin___disco]: many

[sean_crowe]: day that

[evin___disco]: time

[sean_crowe]: this comes

[evin___disco]: horizons

[sean_crowe]: to fruition that

[evin___disco]: but

[sean_crowe]: web three and disco

[evin___disco]: the

[sean_crowe]: could

[evin___disco]: first

[sean_crowe]: solve

[evin___disco]: that i'm particularly excited about is shortening
the time of on boarding into a community

[evin___disco]: organization right now when you join a
daw it's like your first day on the

[evin___disco]: internet you have to hang out in
the discord participate contribute introduce yourself to everybody

[evin___disco]: kind of farm that reputation

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: and there's lot of merit in

[sean_crowe]: ye

[evin___disco]: coming in hot to a community

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: and finding your nice and contributing but
once you make those contributions once you're core

[evin___disco]: part of a guild you're writing the
newsletter organizing events and hosts twitter spaces it's

[evin___disco]: really difficult to capture proofs of a
job well done when you do that work

[evin___disco]: and so very often if you want
to participate in another day perhaps take on

[evin___disco]: another role or even move to a
new organization when you show up to their

[evin___disco]: discord on day on it's like your
first day on the internet again and the

[evin___disco]: whole ground hog day repeats and so
being able to capture proofs of your work

[evin___disco]: and your contribution whether those are your
individual preferences and proticipation in roles or the

[evin___disco]: way that you've shown up for your
organization or community being able to bring that

[evin___disco]: with you and show it as a
proof of contribution a new jobs to other

[evin___disco]: daws to new organizations that proof of
accountability can be used in so many creative

[evin___disco]: ways by as also it's a high
assurance anticiple proxy that you're probably not a

[evin___disco]: if you're showing up to twitter spaces
weekly and you're a good contributor and you

[evin___disco]: always bring pizza or whatever and so
so you know i'm really looking forward to

[evin___disco]: defining

[sean_crowe]: uh

[evin___disco]: with great granularity

[sean_crowe]: h

[evin___disco]: the different kinds of contribution that organizations
are excited to keep track of and allowing

[evin___disco]: individual contributors to take custody of those
kinds of proofs so that we can lower

[evin___disco]: the switching cost of moving from one
space and community another and web three and

[evin___disco]: start to see the kind of portability
that we've always been promised

[sean_crowe]: yet we we interviewed george from common
wealth that you introduced us to and it

[sean_crowe]: was an awesome conversation about dows and
dow tooling what are some and i think

[sean_crowe]: you guys are working with boys club
on like bata here so what are some

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: credentials

[evin___disco]: we are so

[sean_crowe]: that

[evin___disco]: proud

[sean_crowe]: you're

[evin___disco]: and

[sean_crowe]: starting

[evin___disco]: excited

[sean_crowe]: the

[evin___disco]: to

[sean_crowe]: c

[evin___disco]: be working

[sean_crowe]: being

[evin___disco]: with boys

[sean_crowe]: issued

[evin___disco]: club and

[sean_crowe]: within

[evin___disco]: the very

[sean_crowe]: a

[evin___disco]: first

[sean_crowe]: down

[evin___disco]: credential

[sean_crowe]: for work

[evin___disco]: that they

[sean_crowe]: people

[evin___disco]: kicked off with

[sean_crowe]: that

[evin___disco]: is

[sean_crowe]: are

[evin___disco]: actually

[sean_crowe]: doing within

[evin___disco]: the most

[sean_crowe]: a do

[evin___disco]: popular one and what we see is
sort of the anchor credential not only in

[evin___disco]: our growth strategy but also in the
strategy of so many com unities so this

[evin___disco]: initial membership credential attests to an individual's
membership and good standing of that organization so

[evin___disco]: this proof is private by default can
be revoked or set to expire and it

[evin___disco]: is legible to or can be resolved
by the signature can be checked by more

[evin___disco]: than a hundred and fifty different kinds
of keys so etherium keys but coin keys

[evin___disco]: keys that are derived from p g
p email a kind different stuff so it's

[evin___disco]: very universally accessible information should the holder
decide that they want to share it um

[evin___disco]: this credential can be used to access
google collaboration tools like google poles or slides

[evin___disco]: or documents that kind of thing um
get hub repositories chat channels on telegram and

[evin___disco]: discord as well as role titles discounts
and access to exclusive merchandise on shopifi as

[evin___disco]: well as access to privileged on chain
logic so gated n f t minting appropriate

[evin___disco]: only for that membership credential holder are
accessible only for that membership credential holder as

[evin___disco]: well as we're starting to experiment with
permission to defy pools so how might we

[evin___disco]: have a defy pool where you can
only deposit or interact with that smart contract

[evin___disco]: if you have certain credentials off chain
so being able to have a go little

[evin___disco]: file just to chase on blob that
you can carry around and interact in so

[evin___disco]: many different spaces oh and i almost
forgot you can also you present that credential

[evin___disco]: for verification to access physical spaces so
for en parties even you know secure

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: physical locations where you want to keep
track of who's in that space being able

[evin___disco]: to have individual asset that has virtually
no marginal cost to create

[thomas_gorczynski]: a

[evin___disco]: and so universally valuable across

[thomas_gorczynski]: i yeah

[evin___disco]: so many different tools and planes i'm
just really excited to build out even more

[thomas_gorczynski]: ye

[evin___disco]: capabilities

[thomas_gorczynski]: my

[evin___disco]: as these communities grow and see migrations
to have that same

[thomas_gorczynski]: m

[evin___disco]: sort of point of access or combination
of access controls throughout their ecosystem so as

[evin___disco]: we add more roles and more types
of credentials pertaining to their contributions and participation

[evin___disco]: then we'll be able to have even
more nuance access control to all these different

[evin___disco]: spaces

[thomas_gorczynski]: i think it's amazing and how like
literally an infinite amount of ways that this

[thomas_gorczynski]: co can be used across like daws
to businesses

[evin___disco]: oh

[thomas_gorczynski]: to governments and so forth personal

[evin___disco]: as

[thomas_gorczynski]: preferences where do you think you're going
to be are you going to pick a

[thomas_gorczynski]: particular focus like daws because that does
seem like it's such a huge potential of

[thomas_gorczynski]: the future the other question i had
was what's the business model behind disco like

[thomas_gorczynski]: do you have any benefit to working
with one type of organization or a kind

[thomas_gorczynski]: of area than another or and how
do you make money

[evin___disco]: so to address your second question first
we are currently experimenting with how we can

[evin___disco]: contribute value to the application egosystem as
well as are our end users so by

[evin___disco]: better understanding how much risk we are
removing from these application how much frustration and

[evin___disco]: time complexity and drop off we're then
going to determine which so the flow we

[evin___disco]: think have the most value at the
most value and represent services that we can

[evin___disco]: charge for so my conjecture is that
relying parties applications that verify data that's bought

[evin___disco]: to there door that they otherwise would
have to request and store will will participate

[evin___disco]: in a tired subscription structure will always
have a free ter for our de gens

[evin___disco]: and our builders that definitely see

[thomas_gorczynski]: h

[evin___disco]: an opportunity to have an a p
i call

[thomas_gorczynski]: m

[evin___disco]: based business

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[evin___disco]: here also in the future we're really
excited about better enabling ego system of discoverability

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[evin___disco]: having the disco tech or adapt store
essentially of different places where you can discover

[evin___disco]: experiences that will be more personalized based
on the credentials that you've just obtained or

[evin___disco]: interacted with in your data back pack
so being able to bridge the gap of

[evin___disco]: finding places to go hang out in
web three and things to do with your

[evin___disco]: keys that are going to be personalized
and interesting but not necessarily in a way

[evin___disco]: that relies only upon funding your wallet
um m and then you know when we

[evin___disco]: think about sort of how we how
we interact with this ego system all together

[evin___disco]: as users and as you know issuing
and relying parties we we really think about

[evin___disco]: what is that wholes journey of the
life cycle of a credential how can we

[evin___disco]: insure that we're bringing the maximum value
to the needs of the applications on both

[evin___disco]: sides while respecting the informed cans privacy
and participation of the subject of data the

[evin___disco]: human beings moving in between all of
these co ordination tools

[sean_crowe]: i love it i don't know what
thomas said that made me think of this

[sean_crowe]: question but sorry to go a little
more negative here but i was just thinking

[sean_crowe]: about the security of that back packs
and kind of how disco is involved in

[sean_crowe]: that i guess from a decentralization question
as well but like if for example you

[sean_crowe]: know how like f b i

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: goes to apple and they say give
me this data and apple says no and

[sean_crowe]: then everyone's matt at apple if the
f b i came to disco and said

[sean_crowe]: give

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: me this person's private

[evin___disco]: your data

[sean_crowe]: credential

[evin___disco]: with disco

[sean_crowe]: is that even

[evin___disco]: as

[sean_crowe]: possible

[evin___disco]: it exists right

[sean_crowe]: for

[evin___disco]: now

[sean_crowe]: you guys

[evin___disco]: is incrypted

[sean_crowe]: to be forced

[evin___disco]: against your

[sean_crowe]: to

[evin___disco]: keys

[sean_crowe]: do that

[evin___disco]: by default and stored on the ceramic
network and so you and as the subject

[evin___disco]: of that data the owner and controller
of it as well as the owner and

[evin___disco]: control of the private key that overseas
its incription disco has no ability to intervene

[evin___disco]: between you and your data we could
receive that request and you know politely ask

[evin___disco]: you or let you know

[sean_crowe]: h

[evin___disco]: that it's been made but we have
no ability to seize and de crypt your

[evin___disco]: data

[sean_crowe]: yes

[evin___disco]: and share it with other parties

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: love it and are there any like
what is the biggest security risk then like

[sean_crowe]: what

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: what are hackers going to try to
poke their holes into here

[evin___disco]: we eat

[sean_crowe]: can

[evin___disco]: with

[sean_crowe]: someone

[evin___disco]: our eyes

[sean_crowe]: spoof

[evin___disco]: first

[sean_crowe]: my identity

[evin___disco]: of course

[sean_crowe]: and

[evin___disco]: and

[sean_crowe]: spoof

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: my credentials

[evin___disco]: whatever we see has a pretty significant
bearing on the information that we believe to

[evin___disco]: be true so as with all social
fishing and based misleading you know journeys intended

[evin___disco]: to trick us we do have some
amount of risk because of course we're consuming

[evin___disco]: this information through our eyeballs now there
are all kinds of trust cues that we're

[evin___disco]: really excited about introducing and rolling the
coming months that will help to alleviate some

[evin___disco]: of the concerns and allow

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: for an individual to interrogate an interaction
a little bit further than they can traditionally

[evin___disco]: so that they can feel confidence you
know what the choices they're making inside of

[evin___disco]: the app but i think we again
hit a bottle neck when we talk about

[evin___disco]: security around private key management and so
we're particularly excited about exploring some of the

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: unique properties of did documents documents are
like the decentralized link tray or set of

[evin___disco]: directions or service and points for how
to interact with the decentralized identify or data

[evin___disco]: back back in our world and one
of those capabilities for some decentralized identify our

[evin___disco]: methods is the ability to rotate keys
so key rotation means that we can start

[evin___disco]: off with a custodia or semi custodial
experience we can rotate the keys that sit

[evin___disco]: behind public identify our

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: and we can allow that individual organization
to ride off into the sunset as an

[evin___disco]: independent self custodial bank less entity umoukwowning
and controlling their data back pack and their

[evin___disco]: assets so for that gentle on boarding
where we don't necessarily need to start off

[evin___disco]: with private key management but we can
work up to it that does introduce a

[evin___disco]: lot of potential concern is as we
an even larger market

[sean_crowe]: m

[sean_crowe]: got to so i want to take
the last like ten or three minutes here

[sean_crowe]: really to talk about use cases and
try to paint a picture of what this

[sean_crowe]: world could look like with disco back
backs everywhere so what do you think the

[sean_crowe]: first experience

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: someone

[evin___disco]: if your

[sean_crowe]: like

[evin___disco]: parents

[sean_crowe]: our parents will

[evin___disco]: are

[sean_crowe]: have

[evin___disco]: our

[sean_crowe]: using the verified

[evin___disco]: up

[sean_crowe]: verifiable

[evin___disco]: and running with their

[sean_crowe]: credentials

[evin___disco]: own private keys it's likely that the
first credential they'll receive is a membership credential

[evin___disco]: even outside of that as we start
to

[sean_crowe]: they're

[evin___disco]: welcome

[sean_crowe]: not

[evin___disco]: more and more users with you know
ing levels of familiarity with the underlying

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: technology and sort of independent self custody

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: i think that membership credentials of one
form or another are highly likely to be

[evin___disco]: the first that they interact with so
whether those are credentials of employment that attest

[evin___disco]: to the fact that they work somewhere

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[evin___disco]: whether those are credentials of membership in
a physical club

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[evin___disco]: or a group or organization credentials as
the jumping off

[thomas_gorczynski]: ah

[evin___disco]: point of access across environments

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah

[evin___disco]: to different groups and communities i think
will continue to be a really strong first

[evin___disco]: experience

[thomas_gorczynski]: um from a use case of like
developers utilizing disco and i was thinking about

[thomas_gorczynski]: the business model to which i'm a
fan of i like that on like the

[thomas_gorczynski]: call basis um will the business model
well you have a very fluid and direct

[thomas_gorczynski]: relationship to developers such that like we
don't need to go through the like if

[thomas_gorczynski]: i if you wanted to create a
financial app today and you need to use

[thomas_gorczynski]: plat for example to you know hook
up the bank accounts and all this other

[thomas_gorczynski]: stuff it's a process to get that
is it going to be way faster with

[thomas_gorczynski]: disco and kind of like an automatic
like per usage kind of like debit almost

[thomas_gorczynski]: to the developer for just like each
micro transaction for each a p i call

[thomas_gorczynski]: that

[evin___disco]: yeah

[thomas_gorczynski]: such that you eliminate

[evin___disco]: oh

[thomas_gorczynski]: all the kind of headache with getting
set up just like you're trying to make

[thomas_gorczynski]: it easier for users to use this
code to on board to no forms and

[thomas_gorczynski]: stuff

[evin___disco]: so we actually think a lot about
and the feedback that we've gotten so far

[evin___disco]: has actually looked at these sort of
micro transaction based interactions is perhaps more cumbersome

[evin___disco]: and especially for you know for enterprise
applications that are you know thinking about their

[evin___disco]: their own sort of financial relationship with
their vendors and parties they rely upon and

[evin___disco]: so we're loring more of a tired
rate limited subscription model where we will have

[evin___disco]: options for free participation as well as
virtually unlit i uncapped credential factory or verify

[evin___disco]: factory for those parties that are interacting
at scale so our objective and of course

[evin___disco]: will be really flexible with these models
but always you know learning and experimenting but

[evin___disco]: our objective is to remove as

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: much friction as possible from the

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: experience of our builders as well as
the experience of you know those rending that

[evin___disco]: the business teams associated with their apse
and services

[evin___disco]: ah

[sean_crowe]: so i'm definitely a hundred per cent
discopilled and i'm very bullish on this future

[sean_crowe]: but i'm curious are you seeing

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: any web two companies start to adopt
verify credentials because i'm just thinking of maybe

[sean_crowe]: like spotify for example in in this
world where they they can give me a

[sean_crowe]: credential or an n f t or
anything that says i am in the top

[sean_crowe]: point zero one percent of listeners of
taylor's left and i can take that to

[sean_crowe]: the concert and get unique experiences what's
in it for spotify to issue me very

[sean_crowe]: valuable credentials with

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: an open standard

[evin___disco]: i think

[sean_crowe]: rather than just keeping

[evin___disco]: one

[sean_crowe]: that for themselves

[evin___disco]: really exciting

[sean_crowe]: and selling my data

[evin___disco]: part of the future that we're building
is that we can enable apt to consider

[evin___disco]: a two way data market place where
they are creating a known brand around the

[evin___disco]: data they hand over to users so
if you open your data back pack

[evin___disco]: sorry guys um so if you open
your data back pack and you're able to

[evin___disco]: leverage your spotified listening credential to prove

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: your membership in the intailorslift fandom you're
able to carry that with you to ticketing

[evin___disco]: platforms to get preferred access to tickets
to dating platforms to find people to go

[evin___disco]: out with who will come to the
concert with you to commerce retail platforms that

[evin___disco]: will curate you know look similar to
hers or esthetic similar to the ones that

[evin___disco]: that taylor curates herself on um you
know whether it's tumilar interest or whatever and

[evin___disco]: so b able to easily address the
discoverability problem across planes and choose those experiences

[evin___disco]: best suited to

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: what you're feeling at the time helps
to remove a lot of friction in in

[evin___disco]: that process and get you more quickly
to the adventure that you started off seeking

[evin___disco]: in the first place

[sean_crowe]: got it so and the first part
you said i figure how you phrased it

[sean_crowe]: but basically it's a branding opportunity for
spotifye because this this is a spotify credential

[sean_crowe]: that i'm taking do all of these
places and this is more

[evin___disco]: exactly

[sean_crowe]: touch

[evin___disco]: it's

[sean_crowe]: points

[evin___disco]: sort of

[sean_crowe]: with that

[evin___disco]: a

[sean_crowe]: brand

[evin___disco]: net new

[sean_crowe]: if they can create

[evin___disco]: form

[sean_crowe]: that schema

[evin___disco]: of value

[sean_crowe]: and really brand it

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: for themselves

[evin___disco]: the more relevant pieces of information about
myself or you know tools or passes that

[evin___disco]: i collect

[sean_crowe]: h

[evin___disco]: from

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: the spotify ecosystem then when i go
off into the big bag bad met verse

[evin___disco]: how much of my back pack is
owned by spotifyin

[sean_crowe]: okay

[evin___disco]: how much retail in the daily set
of tools and capabilities that i carry with

[evin___disco]: me is related to the experiences that
i have in that app and so for

[evin___disco]: some people you know like me i
love music and so muse represents a really

[evin___disco]: big portion of my life and so

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: being able to accrue my experiences across
twitter spaces and concerts album listening parties and

[evin___disco]: pre saving songs on streaming platforms listening
across streaming platform sharing content with my friends

[evin___disco]: you know all these different activities right
now aren't necessarily following me to provide a

[evin___disco]: complete

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: picture of my fantom but even as
an individual

[sean_crowe]: a

[evin___disco]: as we know a spot if i
wrapped it's pretty awesome to be able to

[evin___disco]: behold the totality of your activity around
a specific subject or group organization or brand

[sean_crowe]: so to talk about just a slightly
different use case

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: for for us for content creators for
podcastersoutubers we were playing with this idea of

[sean_crowe]: issuing kind of a po app for
guests right what is the case to do

[sean_crowe]: this

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: v verifiable

[evin___disco]: there are

[sean_crowe]: credentials

[evin___disco]: a lot of different ways that we
can

[sean_crowe]: not do this with an

[evin___disco]: recognize

[sean_crowe]: n f t

[evin___disco]: the contributions

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: and participation of different people in our
spaces i think the verifiable credentials are uniquely

[evin___disco]: well suited here because as much as
i love poets i love to you know

[evin___disco]: collect them they are kind of like
stickers in that they don't say a lot

[evin___disco]: about the person who holds them and
so if i come into custody

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: of a po ap that doesn't necessarily

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: me that i you know am that
that it is representative of my experience so

[evin___disco]: if i have a pop that says
that i was a guest on the show

[evin___disco]: that doesn't necessarily mean i was a
guest on the show that just means that

[evin___disco]: a given toke i d has been
mapped to my public key and that token

[evin___disco]: i d points to r i with
j peg says that i was pro participant

[evin___disco]: on a given show so it's sort
of a proof of acquisition if you were

[evin___disco]: it comes to personal experiences

[sean_crowe]: yeh

[evin___disco]: and especially

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: for something like participating on a show
where it's very explicit there is

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: a known

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: show you are a non individual that's
the kind of proof that you're going to

[evin___disco]: want to be really proud of carry
with you and other parties might rely upon

[evin___disco]: such as you know future podcasts that
want to see you know actually been on

[evin___disco]: a podcast before and having this proof
might be relevant to them so the consequence

[evin___disco]: of the data i think makes it
a little more important which primitive you use

[evin___disco]: i think pops are super awesome and
fun and wonderful but they're also kind of

[evin___disco]: limited to the vmecosystem so if you
want to be able to surface this data

[evin___disco]: outside of the ecosystem or in a
web tube context in a little bit more

[evin___disco]: friendly manner this might be a good
good primitive for you to look into so

[evin___disco]: we would love to help you guys
set up verifiable credentials for your guests would

[evin___disco]: be happy to put that together we
actually already have a guest speaker credential so

[evin___disco]: it's just a matter of you stick
in your sticking your logo on it and

[evin___disco]: we can get those issues right away

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[sean_crowe]: cool yeah

[evin___disco]: yeah

[sean_crowe]: let's do that that'll be really cool

[evin___disco]: so we're

[sean_crowe]: i

[evin___disco]: really

[sean_crowe]: imagine

[evin___disco]: excited

[sean_crowe]: you have

[evin___disco]: to not

[sean_crowe]: hundreds

[evin___disco]: only have those guest

[sean_crowe]: of

[evin___disco]: speaker

[sean_crowe]: guest speaker

[evin___disco]: credentials

[sean_crowe]: credentials

[evin___disco]: but also

[sean_crowe]: in your back

[evin___disco]: to

[sean_crowe]: back

[evin___disco]: allow

[sean_crowe]: at this

[evin___disco]: people

[sean_crowe]: point

[evin___disco]: to take them to different spaces so
when you apply for

[thomas_gorczynski]: oh

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: a speaking engagement being able to surface
all of those credentials

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: or for example if you're

[thomas_gorczynski]: a

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: teaching a course or leading a workshop
being able to share those credentials of experience

[thomas_gorczynski]: m

[evin___disco]: with with other folks

[thomas_gorczynski]: a

[evin___disco]: who are in your community could be
really relevant oh

[thomas_gorczynski]: yeah i wanted to pick your brain

[evin___disco]: m

[thomas_gorczynski]: and just see like how

[sean_crowe]: yep

[thomas_gorczynski]: crazy

[evin___disco]: yeah

[thomas_gorczynski]: this code can get into the future
or like how how like fun let's

[evin___disco]: m

[thomas_gorczynski]: see that way um so

[evin___disco]: oh

[thomas_gorczynski]: level one is universe like you complete
a course you get

[evin___disco]: my

[thomas_gorczynski]: you add to your back back that
like hey i completed

[evin___disco]: m

[thomas_gorczynski]: this you know of course

[evin___disco]: yes

[thomas_gorczynski]: i have this capability level a kind
of complexity is the whole do situation where

[thomas_gorczynski]: you contribute to a dot you can
go to another one and now you have

[thomas_gorczynski]: this proof that you've done this work
what are like what's three or four or

[thomas_gorczynski]: five like something that isn't applicable yet
in today's kind of world and state of

[thomas_gorczynski]: web three but you can force into
the future that's just kind mind blowing

[evin___disco]: so a fun example that a lot
of friends like to talk about when we

[evin___disco]: think about discoverability is disco as the
basis for a dating ap so you know

[evin___disco]: at the end of the day being
able to identify a sub set of your

[evin___disco]: data and the compatibility or fitness or
similarity of that data to someone else's able

[evin___disco]: to compare the same part of differen
data back facts um in a trust minimized

[evin___disco]: way without a centralized authority you know
taking advantage of that data and reselling it

[evin___disco]: et cetera m that's got the basis
for discoverability of human beings being able to

[evin___disco]: find one another and so that also
invites us to explore things like secure computation

[evin___disco]: over that data in an incrypted form
that also invites us to contemplate how do

[evin___disco]: we even define these parts an is
what does it mean for me to hold

[evin___disco]: on to copies of my references and
to allow those for first secure computation to

[evin___disco]: find other people know whether that's finding
friends to go skiing finding someone go out

[evin___disco]: with on saturday night or finding copanalists
for an event there are a lot of

[evin___disco]: different ways that we can imagine human
to human discoverability can provide a lot of

[evin___disco]: new lot of new openings or open
a lot of new doors rather for us

[evin___disco]: in this community

[evin___disco]: hm

[evin___disco]: oh

[sean_crowe]: so last question us because that popped
up there when you said that do so

[sean_crowe]: like as an apt developer if i
utilized the

[evin___disco]: so

[sean_crowe]: verifiable

[evin___disco]: right

[sean_crowe]: grentials

[evin___disco]: now we're

[sean_crowe]: from the

[evin___disco]: playing

[sean_crowe]: data back

[evin___disco]: with

[sean_crowe]: pack

[evin___disco]: the spectrum

[sean_crowe]: do i have visibility

[evin___disco]: of

[sean_crowe]: into

[evin___disco]: privacy

[sean_crowe]: that specific

[evin___disco]: and publicity

[sean_crowe]: data

[evin___disco]: that

[sean_crowe]: or

[evin___disco]: we

[sean_crowe]: is

[evin___disco]: can

[sean_crowe]: it

[evin___disco]: achieve

[sean_crowe]: i he

[evin___disco]: between

[sean_crowe]: skated

[evin___disco]: data that's incrypted and now only to
your keys and data that's public for everyone

[evin___disco]: on earth in space with an internet
connection on a public

[sean_crowe]: hm

[evin___disco]: ledger so some of the ways that
we can explore that includes decrypting data only

[evin___disco]: at the applayer for the end user
so there are a variety of differe

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: ways also that we can compute upon
data and learn something about it without revealing

[evin___disco]: its plain text

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: and

[sean_crowe]: m

[evin___disco]: so that sort of gets a little
bit more into the math of magic of

[evin___disco]: cryptography and so exactly yes it's just
sprinkle some zqs on it that's like the

[evin___disco]: vibe this week and so so sort
of that

[sean_crowe]: some

[evin___disco]: whole

[sean_crowe]: zqs

[evin___disco]: like area of the universe is what
allows us

[sean_crowe]: yeah

[evin___disco]: to examine more use our privacy preservation
while still enjoying the same level of data

[evin___disco]: availability and persistence that we would enjoy
from otherwise clearly accessible data in a local

[evin___disco]: data base

[sean_crowe]: oh

[evin___disco]: absolutely

[sean_crowe]: ah

[evin___disco]: any

[sean_crowe]: love

[evin___disco]: time

[sean_crowe]: it

[evin___disco]: we'll ee

[sean_crowe]: well

[evin___disco]: you guys in the

[sean_crowe]: evan

[evin___disco]: mediverse

[sean_crowe]: this was a blast we learned so
much thank you so much for being on

[sean_crowe]: the show

[sean_crowe]: sounds good give me one second here
and